Andy Feliciotti: How's it going, everybody? Welcome to the IGDC podcast where we talk about creatives, artists and photographers around the Washington DC area. We're here with Angela Pan. She's a local photographer, and she takes great photos. Her Instagram username is abpanphoto. Angela Pan: Yep. Andy Feliciotti: We're also here with Holly Garner whose username is golightly. I don't know why I added the at to that one. Holly Garner: I don't either, but it's official. Andy Feliciotti: Also, the founder of IGDC. Holly Garner: @IGDC. Andy Feliciotti: Yes, @IGDC. If you're unfamiliar with IGDC, we're a photography community mainly focused around Instagram, and we have a lot of meet-ups and things like that. That's how we met Angela and that's how everybody met each other. I'm Andy Feliciotti, my username is someguy. First, if you don't follow Angela, first of all, you're making a mistake. Her photos are incredible around the city. She's always up at sunrise while I'm just sleeping, so I'm very impressed. Holly Garner: All of us are asleep. Andy Feliciotti: Everyone's sleeping, so it's really amazing. Angela Pan: Thank you. Andy Feliciotti: How'd you get an into photography initially? Angela Pan: I started when I was in high school. We had to pick electives, and I really just picked my electives based on how I can get the best grades. I chose photography, because I thought I could get an easy A, and I thought it'd be fun just to go around and take pictures of my friends and things like that. Once I actually got into the class, it was at that time it was all film. We were in the dark rooms. We were developing our own film, our own negatives, using the enlargers, using all the chemicals, and it was so much fun. I just became obsessed ever since the very beginning. I just remember staying after school, being in the dark room all the time, eventually evolved to becoming yearbook photo editor and president of the photo club. It was like so cool when I was in high school, but I was just all about photo ever since then. When I was in high school, I even got an internship at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum in the photo department. Andy Feliciotti: Oh wow. Angela Pan: I'm still friends with my mentor, Jim, who's from there. Then when I was in college I went to art school, and then even had a job at Ritz Camera. I don't know if you guys remember Ritz Camera. Andy Feliciotti: Not me, you might remember it. Angela Pan: At that time when I was at Ritz Camera, that's when digital cameras first started coming out. It was all point and shoot. It wasn't even that great, it was like 1.2 megapixels or something like that. Andy Feliciotti: Did you see the one with the floppy disc? Angela Pan: Yes, oh my God, I remember that. Andy Feliciotti: It was like 10 photos. Angela Pan: Do you remember when Sony had their own memory stick? Holly Garner: Yes. Angela Pan: I used to hate that about Sony. Andy Feliciotti: Oh my gosh. Angela Pan: Do you remember that? Andy Feliciotti: I used it on PSP, Sony PSP. Holly Garner: He never played well with others. Andy Feliciotti: I still don't. Angela Pan: Now it's the best camera ever. Holly Garner: Sponsored by Sony. Angela Pan: I wish, sponsoring. Andy Feliciotti: You aced the class then, I would guess? Angela Pan: Yeah, teacher's pet, shout out to Ms. Morris. Andy Feliciotti: You didn't have digital in high school then? Angela Pan: No. Andy Feliciotti: Oh wow. You've been doing it for a long time? Angela Pan: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: I started the same way in high school. Holly Garner: Did you, film? Angela Pan: Were you digital back then? Andy Feliciotti: Well we did a film class, but we didn't do negatives or anything like that. We just went to Costco. Angela Pan: Oh wow. Andy Feliciotti: Then we got digital. Angela Pan: Actually I went back to my high school, Amanda Photosynthesis. She was the photo teacher at my old high school. She kind of gave me a tour of the old classroom and it looks completely different. It looks like a computer lab now. It doesn't even look like a photo class like before. Holly Garner: Oh that's cool. Andy Feliciotti: That makes sense, now the job is entirely editing in Photoshop related stuff. Angela Pan: It's crazy. Andy Feliciotti: When did you actually join Instagram? Angela Pan: Way past when I feel like everybody else joined. It took me a couple of years. One of my friends, who is not a photographer, she just was on Instagram just for fun. She was like, "Why aren't you on Instagram?" I just thought it was all like bad filters and food pictures. I never really thought anything of it. I think my first picture on Instagram is actually like a picture of me and my nephews. The one after that is probably like me and my husband or something like that. I didn't really know how to use it. Then probably not until 2014 when I first started, I got invited to my first Instameet. That's when I first met you, Andy. That's when I was like, "Oh, okay. It's more than just like posting pictures. You can actually meet people from here." Andy Feliciotti: I think that was my first Instameet too. Angela Pan: Was it? Holly Garner: Which one was that? Andy Feliciotti: It was the Adornment of Interior reopened the elevator. Angela Pan: For the Washington monument. Holly Garner: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. That's funny that we have the same experience. You had to apply to that, which I didn't remember at the time. Angela Pan: Oh you did? Yeah, I thought I was just got invited. Andy Feliciotti: Well, okay. Angela Pan: I don't know, I don't remember, it was a while ago. Andy Feliciotti: Maybe I applied. Angela Pan: It was a while ago. I don't remember. Andy Feliciotti: It's like now, you don't apply to go to Instameet. Holly Garner: NASA still does. You still have to apply to theirs. Andy Feliciotti: The Greenbelt one. Yeah, I saw that. Angela Pan: Oh, I didn't know that. Andy Feliciotti: Well that's why nobody goes to theirs. Holly Garner: I went to one of their last ones, Dave and I did. We registered. We know your work being landscape primarily all around DC. The monuments are a big focal point for you. Has it always been an interest in landscape, or did you just sort of evolve from you started in high school? I imagine a lot of photography with your friends and around school. How did you get to where you are now with a special focus on landscape? Angela Pan: I started photography in high school, just took pictures of my friends and would actually go to Great Falls because I'm from this area. I'd go to Great Falls a lot and take pictures around there. Really loved that there. One of my favorite pictures I remember from high school were of Great Falls. Then when I was in college, still taking pictures of my friends and things like that. I think it was not until I graduated, got my first real job, and I was actually taking pictures of my then boyfriend, now husband's cousin's chameleons. He had a chameleon business where he was like breeding and selling chameleons. I was taking pictures of the chameleons for him, and we were selling calendars and posters and things like that. It was of chameleons, but then they wanted to sell their business, and I realized I couldn't be like a chameleon photographer for the rest of my life. I had to just sit down and really think about what I really loved. What I love is just traveling and going to new places, seeing new things, and taking pictures of landscapes. Angela Pan: I just started off just taking pictures in the DC area just because I live here, and it's so easy, so convenient and it's so beautiful, so easy to just go there and take some really nice pictures. I guess that's how I just started and I just kept on going from there. Holly Garner: What is a typical day for you of shooting? Do you watch the weather? Do you see what the conditions are going to be like and then make a decision to go out or do you go out every day? Angela Pan: Definitely. A lot of people think I wake up every day, and I really don't. I don't think I could. Andy Feliciotti: It seems that way. Angela Pan: It seems that way, but no. Holly Garner: They're like, "Oh, there's Angela, where's her photo?" Angela Pan: Usually before bed I'll check the weather. I'll check what the weather's going be like in the morning. I'll have these certain apps that I check to see if the sunrise might be nice. Even if some of those weather apps say it's not going to be good, if I just haven't gone out in a while, I'll still have that urge and feeling of wanting to wake up early and just go out. I just think that waking up early in the morning and being out there, most of the time I'm by myself, is just so peaceful and so calming. I love it. I just do it even whenever. Holly Garner: How often a week do you think you'd get out? Would you say you get out to monuments? Angela Pan: It varies. In the past week I haven't gone at all, but before that I was probably going out maybe at least two or three times a week, something like that. But before maybe if you asked me last year I would've said four or five. Holly Garner: And then if it's something like cherry blossom season are you out there every day? Angela Pan: Yeah, definitely, cherry blossoms I'm out every day. Holly Garner: That's when you make it for sunrise. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, if the app says it's going to be a nice sunrise. The app is definitely not correct all the time. You probably get a lot of surprises going out. Angela Pan: Yeah. Yeah. Then even, I feel like maybe sometime this week because of all this rain, and then it's supposed to get warmer later on in the week, that maybe we get some fog. That'll be really cool. The app will say it will be zero color but still go out and take pictures of fog. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. I've never been able to decipher when the fog will come. You always get those crazy fog shots. Angela Pan: Yeah. It's just practice, I think. I'll text you next time. Holly Garner: Fog time. Andy Feliciotti: 5:00 AM, I'll be like, "Oh yeah, put it in my phone." So what camera do you primarily shoot on? Angela Pan: With my Sony A7II. I just recently got a Sony 200 and I've been shooting a lot with that lens. Love that. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, did you have for your Canon? Angela Pan: I did. Actually with my Canon I wasn't shooting with it a lot because just with the body and the lens, it just made everything so heavy. Andy Feliciotti: I can see that. The Canon one is absolutely massive. Angela Pan: It is. Now with the Sony, and then using this 70 to 200 it's a lot easier and I just like it. I like shooting with it a lot more. Andy Feliciotti: After you go out in the morning, and you shoot, what do you normally do to edit the photos afterwards? Also do you edit immediately after you take the photos? Angela Pan: Sometimes. I used to go immediately right after, but now I've become more relaxed. I just take my time in editing. Sometimes if I can't get it rigHt where I want it, I'll maybe take a break for a little bit and go. Are you asking me about what programs I use? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Angela Pan: Okay. Lately I have been using Lightroom a lot more, I never did before and now I'm starting to see the benefits of it. I'll still use Lightroom and I'm still going to Photoshop to minor tweak things. Before I was just primarily using Photoshop. Andy Feliciotti: The healing brush alone in Photoshop. Holly Garner: Do you primarily do all your editing on your laptop? Angela Pan: Yes. Holly Garner: No phone editing? Angela Pan: No. Andy Feliciotti: What filter do you primarily use in Instagram? Angela Pan: Actually I don't. I just use my Photoshop filters. Andy Feliciotti: You have pre made actions that you typically do? Angela Pan: No, I don't. I just use, what is it called? Andy Feliciotti: Precept panel? Angela Pan: No, it's a Google filters. Andy Feliciotti: NiK Collections. Angela Pan: NiK Collection, yeah. I'll use NiK Collection most of the time. Andy Feliciotti: The sharpening or is there a filter? Angela Pan: Pro contrast, I'll use darken outside lighten inside one, there's a glamour glow one. It depends on the picture really. Andy Feliciotti: They stopped making that though, right? Angela Pan: They still have updates. I remember updating it the other day. Andy Feliciotti: Maybe they said they were going to, and then now it's back or something. I don't know. I remember when they made it for free. It was like a paid program. Yeah. I don't know if you're familiar, Holly, it's all good. Holly Garner: I am not, I don't. I do most of my editing on my phone. Andy Feliciotti: Like a true Instagrammer. Holly Garner: A true Instagrammer. Since you are so familiar with the monuments down on the mall, what is the shot that you want to get but you have yet to get? Is there a shot that's still there to be captured that none of us can get? Angela Pan: Yes. There's so many. Holly Garner: Tell us. Angela Pan: Oh, off the top of my head. Holly Garner: The elusive shot that you haven't captured. Angela Pan: Oh shoot. I know there's so many, but can I just look at my saved collections real quick? Holly Garner: Uh-huh.(affirmative) Andy Feliciotti: Wow shock ... Angela Pan: ... like saved collections real quick. [crosstalk 00:12:03] Because I know there's so many. For D.C.? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, for D.C., specifically. Holly Garner: That raises another question. Aside from Instagram how else are you, what other tools are you using to get your work out for public consumption? Do you use Flickr? Do you use - [crosstalk 00:12:22] Andy Feliciotti: I know I've seen your photos on Google Plus a couple times. Angela Pan: Yeah, I'm on - Holly Garner: Google Plus is still around? Andy Feliciotti: No, she uses it. Angela Pan: I do, yeah. Holly Garner: Okay. Andy Feliciotti: It's oddly - Holly Garner: I have an account but ... Andy Feliciotti: - very good photography-oriented, it's oddly enough. Angela Pan: And oddly enough, Google Plus is my biggest following. Holly Garner: Really? Angela Pan: Yeah. Holly Garner: Wow. Angela Pan: And I have no idea - Andy Feliciotti: On the IGDC Podcast we're promoting Google Plus, so go and download the Google Plus [crosstalk 00:12:45]. Holly Garner: Set up your profile tomorrow. Angela Pan: So, yeah Google Plus, LinkedIn, Flickr, SmugMug, Pinterest, Facebook, and I have my own blog that I blog every Monday through Friday. YouTube ... Pretty much everywhere except for 500px. Andy Feliciotti: I'm surprised you don't post there but ... Angela Pan: Yeah, I don't know why. I never got into it. Maybe I just need someone to convince me why - Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, or just automate it all and ruin the entire flow. Holly Garner: Do you do Flickr? Andy Feliciotti: No, I haven't uploaded anything else in a while. Angela Pan: You used to right? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Holly Garner: Do you still take photos? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, I may have not posted in a couple months but I have taken some photos. Angela Pan: Okay, so the elusive D.C. images that I still want to get, I still really want to get a really nice one from the plane. From flying out of D.C. - [crosstalk 00:13:37] Andy Feliciotti: You really haven't gotten that? Angela Pan: I have, but nothing that I was super happy with. Andy Feliciotti: The worst is when you get on there and you have the wing. You're like, "No, no!" Angela Pan: Yeah, I mean sometimes you can make it work, but ... Holly Garner: [Jen Bernat 00:13:50] seems to have a knack for those photos. He always can capture, he always has the best seat. Andy Feliciotti: What's her username? Holly Garner: Jen Bernat? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah she, I would say she gets a lot ... Angela Pan: Yeah, she does. And I really want to get a really nice moon shot over the monuments. I haven't gotten one that I really wanted - [crosstalk 00:14:10] Andy Feliciotti: That 200mm would be really good. Angela Pan: Yeah, that's what I need to get. Andy Feliciotti: I always see these moon shots and I'm just like, "Are these photoshopped?" Every time. Because it's always huge - [crosstalk 00:14:17] Angela Pan: You know, I don't think so. Yeah, but you know today is actually a full moon, but because it's so rainy that we won't - [crosstalk 00:14:25] Andy Feliciotti: And you're here. Angela Pan: - be able to see it. Yeah, and here. Holly Garner: She sacrificed the elusive shot of the moon to be with you all today. Angela Pan: Next month. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah I don't think I've ever gotten the moon shot but that's - Angela Pan: That's something I want to get. Andy Feliciotti: Especially when that a, what's the red moon or ...? Angela Pan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Holly Garner: That harvest, the red ... yeah the harvest moon. Angela Pan: The harvest moon, yeah. Andy Feliciotti: Every time I see that I'm like, "Whoa." Angela Pan: Yeah, yeah. Holly Garner: Were you here during the eclipse or were you ... Did you chase it to one of the better viewpoints? Angela Pan: I was here but I didn't photograph it. Holly Garner: No? Angela Pan: No. Holly Garner: Interesting. Angela Pan: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: [crosstalk 00:14:59] There's really not much to photograph. Holly Garner: I know, I just ... Angela Pan: I feel like you had to be on a west coast, like in Oregon. Like that one photographer who got that amazing one with the silhouette and then - [crosstalk 00:15:11] Andy Feliciotti: Oh, the rock climber? Angela Pan: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: Michael [inaudible 00:15:13] - Holly Garner: Oh, yes. Yes. Andy Feliciotti: - I think was the primary photographer. Angela Pan: Is that who it was? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Angela Pan: That was amazing. Holly Garner: That was a great shot. Andy Feliciotti: If you don't follow him, he also has crazy nature photos. Angela Pan: Props. Andy Feliciotti: Not D.C. related at all, but it's very beautiful. Angela Pan: So good. Andy Feliciotti: So what would be your favorite place in D.C. to photograph? Angela Pan: Whenever anyone asks me that I always just say default, Lincoln Memorial. Just because you go to Lincoln Memorial - Andy Feliciotti: It really is the best. Angela Pan: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: I agree. Angela Pan: You got the Reflecting Pool, you've got the Vietnam veterans, the Korean War memorial, and there's just so much in that small vicinity right there. Holly Garner: Yeah, and it's under construction though now, so it's going to be a few years before it's - Angela Pan: Is it really years? Andy Feliciotti: What? Holly Garner: I think so, I think it's going to be under ... it's like phases. So they're starting with the back side and then I think they move - Andy Feliciotti: You can't even walk around it right now. I went there and I was like, "Oh." Holly Garner: It's going to be a big renovation. Andy Feliciotti: Because that's one of my favorite spots. Holly Garner: [crosstalk 00:16:03] I don't know how long it's going to be, but it's going to be - Angela Pan: Do you know what they're actually doing? Holly Garner: I think they're doing all kinds of ... they're doing roof work, they're doing cleaning, they're doing - Angela Pan: Basement? Holly Garner: - basement, foundation work, I don't know - [crosstalk 00:16:16] Angela Pan: So everything. Holly Garner: They have a ... The guy who gave money for the Washington Monument I think also gave money for this renovation. So they're using - Andy Feliciotti: It's amazing they need someone to donate money to - Holly Garner: I know. Andy Feliciotti: - do renovations. Angela Pan: I mean there's so many renovations that need to be done just because, have you guys been to the Tidal Basin when it's all super flooded? Andy Feliciotti: Oh it's been, it's always flooded. Holly Garner: Yes. Angela Pan: Crazy. Holly Garner: It's gotten really bad. Angela Pan: It's gotten really bad. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah I was there like a week ago, it was pretty much every aspect was flooded and muddy and ... And it's a basin, so they could probably close off one end. Holly Garner: Yeah I think based on just your photos, that's when I know ... that's how I know what the Tidal Basin is under [crosstalk 00:16:55] condition-wise. Angela Pan: It can't be good for the cherry blossom trees. Holly Garner: No, they're going to have to deal with it eventually because - Andy Feliciotti: Oh, I didn't think about that. They trimmed [crosstalk 00:17:02] a lot of them too this year and that really annoyed me. Holly Garner: Because it's not going to be better. Angela Pan: Did they? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Holly Garner: I think that's to keep them healthy though. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah I guess, but I like when they overhang. When they overhang to the water it's - Holly Garner: I know, yeah. Angela Pan: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: They trimmed a lot of the, you know ... primarily spots like that. Holly Garner: Well what is your favorite season to shoot in the city? Angela Pan: Spring, definitely. The flowers just make everything come alive. I love it. Andy Feliciotti: You don't like the winter? It's great, all cold and ... Angela Pan: You know - Andy Feliciotti: Do you wake up for sunrise during the winter? Angela Pan: I do, and actually I think colder weather and colder environments make for better pictures. I just don't like the cold, but I do it. Andy Feliciotti: I do like how no one is out when it's cold. It's a lot, huge benefit. Angela Pan: I have noticed that in the D.C. area in the winter time, we do have a lot more foggier days. Have you guys ever noticed that? Holly Garner: I haven't noticed that. Andy Feliciotti: In the winter? Angela Pan: Yeah in the winter time. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. I don't wake up earlier so I'm like, "Hmm. Uh, no." Unclear. Did you notice the, on the Jefferson Memorial, they have a little bit of it cleaned on top? Angela Pan: Just that one strip. Andy Feliciotti: It's the most annoying thing ever. [crosstalk 00:18:08] Holly Garner: It is so annoying. Andy Feliciotti: Apparently normal cleaning agents will destroy the roof, so they're testing out elements. But - Holly Garner: Because they don't ... that black stuff that's on the surface, they don't know what it is. They can't figure out how to get it off - Angela Pan: Really? Holly Garner: - that's why they're testing ... so there's another part of the monument that's on the bottom by the grass that's kind of not really a well-known spot. It's not something highly visible. They were doing test strips all last year trying to test out different chemicals, not chemicals - [crosstalk 00:18:39] Andy Feliciotti: Oh. And you can see that if you walk there? Holly Garner: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Andy Feliciotti: Oh wow. Angela Pan: Interesting. Holly Garner: So I think they must have found one of those worked pretty well, and they did that strip - [crosstalk 00:18:47] Andy Feliciotti: And they did one - [crosstalk 00:18:47] Holly Garner: I know. Andy Feliciotti: - one strip a year. Holly Garner: I don't know if it's going to be a year, I think they're just testing it out to see how it takes. Andy Feliciotti: Oh, yeah. Holly Garner: Like if it grows back, or ... because I think it's some sort of a, not a ... I don't know if it's a fungus or a mold or a ... Andy Feliciotti: I would just pour some bleach on there and just [crosstalk 00:19:04] - Angela Pan: Call it a day. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. They can replace the roof, I'm sure. That'd be cool [inaudible 00:19:09] though. Angela Pan: That would be cool. Andy Feliciotti: With the roof off for like a week. Angela Pan: That would be really cool. Andy Feliciotti: That would be really, like what? Angela Pan: Do you remember when the monument was all full of scaffolding? Did you guys like that? Andy Feliciotti: Did we like it or see it? Angela Pan: Both. Holly Garner: I liked it. Andy Feliciotti: I thought it was - Holly Garner: You didn't like it? Andy Feliciotti: I don't know, I thought it was ... I don't know, just weird. Angela Pan: I thought it was better than the Capitol scaffolding. Andy Feliciotti: The Capitol was awful. [crosstalk 00:19:28] Holly Garner: The Capitol was terrible. [crosstalk 00:19:31] So happy to see that go. Angela Pan: The Lincoln, I just really don't like that one. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, that one is terrible. I feel like walking to the edge there on the Lincoln is one of my favorite photos that you can take with the columns and Washington Monument. And for some reason tourists go back there, which doesn't make sense to me. Holly Garner: The back side? To overlook the bridge? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, or even on the edge. Any of the edges, or ... Holly Garner: Yeah. Andy Feliciotti: Because you can walk all the way around there. Angela Pan: Yeah, that was really cool about the Lincoln. Andy Feliciotti: And speaking of the Lincoln Memorial, your photo is in the gift shop. Angela Pan: Oh yes, it is. Holly Garner: That's right. Angela Pan: Yes. Holly Garner: You have a whole catalog of items. Angela Pan: Yeah, it was [crosstalk 00:20:10] so exciting. Holly Garner: So what do they have now that people can buy Angela Pan's work on? Angela Pan: They have postcards and they have 8 x 10 prints. Holly Garner: Nice. Andy Feliciotti: Oh, yeah wow. I didn't see the prints. Angela Pan: Yeah. Holly Garner: It's awesome, and how does that make you feel when you think about all these tourists that go every day and they pick up your stuff? I mean isn't that incredible - [crosstalk 00:20:29] Angela Pan: It's crazy. Holly Garner: - as a photographer to think - [crosstalk 00:20:31] Angela Pan: I can't even imagine. Holly Garner: - that they're walking off with your stuff - [crosstalk 00:20:33] Angela Pan: I feel like I've gone - [crosstalk 00:20:34] Holly Garner: - and paying good money for it? Angela Pan: Yeah, I feel like I've gone to other national parks before because I've never really gone to the gift shops in the National Mall before I've never really wanted - Andy Feliciotti: I didn't even know there was one in the Lincoln Memorial. Angela Pan: [crosstalk 00:20:45] Yeah, me neither. Holly Garner: In the basement, right? Angela Pan: No it's actually when you walk up the steps, you turn to the right and it's right there. Holly Garner: Oh, okay. Angela Pan: So, yeah I go to other national parks and see other photographers being featured in those gift stores. I was like, "How could I get featured in a gift store?" In the National Mall I have so many pictures and things like that. So actually it coming true is crazy. I still can't imagine, and every time I go to the National Mall now I just want to go peek through because it's still the same. Holly Garner: Well so - [crosstalk 00:21:12] Angela Pan: I still want to go look. Holly Garner: - how did that come about? Did they approach you? Did you approach them to say, "I have these photos, are you interested in possibly ...?" How did it come to be? Angela Pan: I think it was kind of - [crosstalk 00:21:24] Holly Garner: Or do you care to share with us? Angela Pan: - a mid-way thing. The Trust for the National Mall approached me and a few other photographers in the D.C. area about doing a cherry blossom takeover in 2017. So I did that, and then just kept in contact with the contact at Trust for the National Mall. Every year I always have a calendar, and so I sent them a calendar. I was like, "Oh, loved working with you. Remember my name." Holly Garner: Here's a little something. Angela Pan: Yeah, exactly. So I sent them a calendar and they came up with the idea of having postcards or ... actually I think the original idea was actually carrying the calendar in there. Then they said the calendar would have to go through this long approval process and things like that, and it would be quicker if we could just do postcards and prints from now on. And I was like, "Yeah, sure." Andy Feliciotti: That's surprising that - Holly Garner: That is surprising. Andy Feliciotti: - that they need approval. Angela Pan: Because I think everything in those gift stores are supposed to be educational. So it had to have some kind of educational - Andy Feliciotti: Like overlays to the calendar? Angela Pan: Exactly. So if you've read the postcards, the back of the postcards, there's some information about the Lincoln Memorial, or the Washington Monument, or whatever is on the front of the picture. Andy Feliciotti: I never realized that. Now every time I go into a national park, is it any national park? Angela Pan: I think so. Andy Feliciotti: Oh wow. I'm going to look and be like, "Oh, learning." Angela Pan: Yeah. So they had to be approved by MPS in order for me to actually get into those gift stores. Andy Feliciotti: And you also, that explains why your book probably isn't in there or ...? Angela Pan: Yes, because that has - Andy Feliciotti: For everyone who doesn't know, Angela has also made a book of how to photograph D.C. Angela Pan: Yeah, it's called "Snap D.C." and it's available on Amazon. It's all about everything that I've learned throughout the years of photographing the Washington Monuments and just other favorite places in the D.C. area. That would be an even longer approval process, I feel like, because they are going to nitpick everything. Andy Feliciotti: Every time you're out though and you see other photographers, what's the biggest mistake you see people make while they're in D.C.? Angela Pan: That they stand in the same place. They will stand at the Reflecting Pool in the dead center - Andy Feliciotti: Hey! Angela Pan: - for the whole sunrise. Is that what you do? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Angela Pan: [crosstalk 00:23:38] with their red shoes on. But they'll just stay in the same place for an hour. [crosstalk 00:23:43] Is that what you do Andy? Holly Garner: Just snap, snap, snap. Andy Feliciotti: That's what I do. I don't see the problem with that. Angela Pan: I think you need to move around, and try different angles, and try different things. Andy Feliciotti: This is why I'm not - [crosstalk 00:23:52] Holly Garner: So why do you stay in one place? Do you think you've just got the spot, so you have to stay there to get the shot? Andy Feliciotti: I like the symmetrical [crosstalk 00:24:00] photos. Holly Garner: Are you worried about losing the shot if you move around? Andy Feliciotti: I think it's just it being symmetrical. Angela Pan: Is it about losing the shot if you move around? Andy Feliciotti: I think it just being symmetrical is- Holly Garner: But you can be symmetrical further back, too. Andy Feliciotti: I guess, but then you get the guy who moves to the front middle spot. You're like, oh, that's the nice part of being right at the water there. No one ever- Angela Pan: Yeah, no one ever stands in front of you. Holly Garner: So when you go to the Capital, same thing? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, you always got to get in the middle. You want to get in the middle, unless you're on the East side of the capital, then you get near the edges of those reflective things. Angela Pan: So do you move between those two reflective things? Andy Feliciotti: I usually go whichever direction the sun is doing its thing. It's usually a beneficial way to go. Yeah. South side. Sunset. Holly Garner: So back to Snap DC, I just wanted to mention, too, if you want to tell us a little bit about your book, what it basically is everything you've learned, and it's any photographer or budding photographer can pick up your book, go to the mall, and say, "Okay, if I want to get a sunset shot, Angela tells me I should go here, here, or here." And then go from there. So it's a really hands-on, very easy to follow tool and resource for photographers who are new to the area. Angela Pan: Exactly. Holly Garner: Or people who know the area really well but they don't visit the monuments as much as you do. Angela Pan: To be honest, I had a person like me in mind when I was writing it. Whenever I go to a new place, like if I've never to been to Philadelphia, or if I've never been to New York, I will spend hours researching wherever I wanted to go. Find the coolest pictures, look through Instagram, look through Pinterest, all these different places, all these different sources to find the best pictures that I can take, maximize my time while I'm in that area. So this book is really for those same kind of photographers, who just want to maximize their time, take the best shots that they can. Just really quick, easy reference book to guide them around the city and take those kind of pictures. Holly Garner: No, I think it's great because also you really dig into like what time you go, you should go to these spots, which is really helpful when you don't know the lighting and the timeframe. Andy Feliciotti: And the camera settings are on most of the photos too. Holly Garner: Yeah, the camera settings. Angela Pan: Camera settings are there. I even have parking suggestions, because believe it or not, a lot of people always ask me about parking. Andy Feliciotti: I will say, because I grew up in College Park, so a lot of times coming down here was really intimidating. But, now that I live in the city, it's like, "Oh, parking everywhere is easy." Don't let that be your limiting factor. But when you're from not in the area, you're like, "Oh, it's confusing," or- Holly Garner: I will say it's confusing and our DC signs are not the most clear, so it's intimidating. Andy Feliciotti: Just get the ParkMobile app. Perfect. And, I don't know if you saw it, they have availability now on the ParkMobile app. Holly Garner: Oh, I did see that. Angela Pan: No, I didn't see that. Andy Feliciotti: You can see what areas have open spots, kind of. Holly Garner: That's cool. Andy Feliciotti: They charge you a dollar a month to do that. Holly Garner: Oh, do they? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Which I do. Holly Garner: Do you chart it? Is it accurate? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, it's pretty- Angela Pan: Yeah, Andy loves to subscribe to things. Andy Feliciotti: I love subscribing to as many services: Upcoming, the igdc $10-a-month club. Angela Pan: There you go. Holly Garner: What does $10 get you? Andy Feliciotti: No, I'm joking. Angela Pan: I was like, "What is this?" Andy Feliciotti: igdc is free. Angela Pan: igdc is always free. Always inclusive. Andy Feliciotti: Messaging rates may apply. But, yeah, it just kind of shows, you know, the ParkMobile zones. It just shows a line of a color. So if it's very full, it'd be red. But you can kind of scroll over the map and see where people aren't parking. Angela Pan: So like when there's a hockey game, it's going to be all red around. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. But its not like a heat map. It's exactly in a little strip, like each little ... It's very detailed. Holly Garner: That's cool. Interesting. Andy Feliciotti: Now you know. Holly Garner: Now you know. Interesting. Andy Feliciotti: Or you just wake up at sunrise and not worry about anything ever. Angela Pan: You pretty much have your way with anything in the ... At sunrise. If you can get yourself up, and get out at sunrise, the city is your playground. Holly Garner: Parking spot. Angela Pan: You can go anywhere or see anything. Andy Feliciotti: You just put your hazards on, and you just go right in the middle of the reflecting pool, and you just ... Angela Pan: It's amazing. The few times that I do it, I'm just like, "Why don't I do this more often?" And get myself out. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, if you're a photographer in DC, it's definitely, you definitely should get out and check it out. Because every time I do it, it's an incredible experience. Angela Pan: It is. It really is. Holly Garner: And, I imagine you run into people now more that you know. Angela Pan: Yeah, sometimes. Holly Garner: Now, because there's so many photographers in the city, and we all know each other now, a good number of us do. So, I feel like you run into people a lot, and I see it on social media. I actually saw Jared this morning. Angela Pan: Oh my god, I run into Jared all the time. Holly Garner: And Andy. Yeah. Angela Pan: So funny. We never make plans to meet up with each other, we just run into each other all the time. Holly Garner: He's also a morning person. Loves it. Angela Pan: Shout out, Jared Hendricks. Andy Feliciotti: His user name is just Jared Hendricks, I think. Or dot? Holly Garner: Jared dot- Angela Pan: Is it dot? Andy Feliciotti: I think it's dot. Angela Pan: It's a dot? Holly Garner: I think there is a dot in there, yeah. Andy Feliciotti: He takes a lot of nature- Angela Pan: Architecture, portraits- Holly Garner: Nature, architecture- Angela Pan: Everything. Andy Feliciotti: Everything. Holly Garner: Everything. Yeah, he just has got his creative photos that he's been doing, his imaginary places- Angela Pan: Places that don't exist. Andy Feliciotti: I always think about that car. Holly Garner: Yes, places that don't exist. Hi, Jared! Andy Feliciotti: Now if we don't get a message about those ... "Oh, excuse us!" Holly Garner: So, do you have any plans coming up? Any things you're trying to attempt with photography, that you're trying to look for, change? New lenses, or are you doing anything with- Andy Feliciotti: A second book? Holly Garner: Yeah, anything. What's coming up for Angela this year? Angela Pan: Yeah, I think, in the past year, I've really tried to push myself and I've been doing a lot more street, especially when I'm traveling. Taking a lot more street photography, images. I don't have a prime lens and I think that my next lens is gonna be a prime and try to experiment a little bit more with portraiture 'cause I don't really do that either. Obviously, it's always gonna always still be monuments or sunrise, but ... Yeah, I think also exploring new places in the DC area, not just the National Mall, would be really interesting, too. Holly Garner: That's awesome. I love that you're getting into street. I'm very intimidated by street, as well, and my husband Dave uses a lot of prime lenses and they intimidate me because I like the versatility of being able to control your depth and- Andy Feliciotti: I love primes. I dunno. Angela Pan: Do you? Andy Feliciotti: Yeah. Holly Garner: You do shoot with primes, primarily, right? Andy Feliciotti: It's base three on ... Well, 16 to 35 is my only exception really. Angela Pan: Really? Andy Feliciotti: That lens is just awesome though. I love that wide ... If there was a 16 mm prime, I would get that. Angela Pan: What prime lenses do you have? Andy Feliciotti: The 14 mm, which, I hate that. Angela Pan: Why? Andy Feliciotti: It just is so wide and pointless. 24 mm, which a lot of my older photos were taken on that and I really like that lens. I just wish there was like a 20, or like something in-between. Then I had the 85, which, I also hate that. Angela Pan: Why do you hate the 85? Andy Feliciotti: It's just so zoomed. I dunno, it's just so zoomed in. And it's definitely good for portraits, but it's so wide. I just like getting the grand ... You kinda get the same photos, just very grand. You can see everything going on. I guess that's why I like the 16. Angela Pan: Yeah, makes sense. You're right. Andy Feliciotti: Okay, well, thanks for talking to us Angela. Angela Pan: Yeah, this is fun. Holly Garner: Thank you for coming. Angela Pan: This was awesome. Holly Garner: This was fun. We learned a lot. We look forward to your photos. Angela Pan: Oh, thank you so much. Andy Feliciotti: And be sure to follow Angela. Her user name is abpanphoto, and her website is abpan.com. Holly Garner: And you can find her on Flickr- Andy Feliciotti: Google, and Google Plus- Holly Garner: LinkedIn, Pinterest- Angela Pan: Google Plus, YouTube- Andy Feliciotti: MySpace- Holly Garner: YouTube- Angela Pan: MySpace, yeah. I was definitely on there, too. Holly Garner: [crosstalk 00:31:58] Andy Feliciotti: Hey, I was too, I was too. Angela Pan: Yeah, all those places. All of them is abpanphoto. Andy Feliciotti: Awesome, great. Well, thank you for talking to us. Holly Garner: Can people go to your website and link to all of these things? Angela Pan: Yeah. Holly Garner: That's the hub. You can go to pretty much everything there. Awesome. Angela Pan: Oh, Twitter. Andy Feliciotti: Oh, right. There's also an Instagram podcast. Holly Garner: Okay, Instagram. Angela Pan: Instagram stories. Holly Garner: Oh, do you have more than one account on Instagram? Angela Pan: I do. Holly Garner: What are your other accounts? Are you willing to share them with us? Angela Pan: Okay, so my dog has an Instagram @frankensteinwoopan. Holly Garner: Nice. Angela Pan: And then, I actually have never really told anyone this, I have an iPhone-only Instagram. Did you guys know? Andy Feliciotti: No. Holly Garner: No. Angela Pan: Yeah, sometimes I'll hashtag it #snapdc, and some people have found me on there, but yeah it's an iPhone only. I think it's abpa.n. Andy Feliciotti: I may have seen that. Angela Pan: Abpa.n. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, p.a.n. Angela Pan: There's so many Angela Pans out there. Can I tell you? It is so hard to find an Angela Pan, or even Angela B. Pan variation, so that was like the only name that I could find without a number in it. Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, the number is like the death of your account. Angela Pan: Yeah, you do not want a number. Andy Feliciotti: You're like, "Four, no!" Abpan8. Holly Garner: [crosstalk 00:33:22] 87. Angela Pan: And then my Facebook is Angela-Pan-3. I know, I know. Andy Feliciotti: But Instagram's all that matters, so- Holly Garner: Yeah, that's true. Alright, well, thank you so much. Angela Pan: Thank you. Holly Garner: This has been fun. Angela Pan: It was. Holly Garner: [crosstalk 00:33:40] Andy Feliciotti: Yeah, and thanks for listening ... Okay, Holly, cut me off rudely. Holly Garner: Sorry, go ahead. Andy Feliciotti: Thanks for listening, and remember to tag your photos #igdc and check out igdc on Instagram. The user name is igdc, obviously. Yeah, so have a good one. Holly Garner: @igdc. Andy Feliciotti: @igdc, check it out. Thanks again to Angela for joining us. Holly Garner: Thank you, Angela. Angela Pan: It was fun, thank you guys.